Re: FN-FORUM: OT Austrailian scam phonecalls

date posted 27th January 2004 14:27

On Monday 26 Jan 2004 10:40 pm, Bob Gentle wrote:
> Seems it's not a hoax or an urban myth afterall

Bob, there is *no* *way* that pressing 9 during an incoming=20
phone call can automatically incur premium rate charges, or=20
make a reverse call.

If you wish to argue otherwise can I beg of you to take it
up with the experts in uk.telecom. Meanwhile here is a=20
recent post from there... and for those who can't be arsed=20
to read the whole thing, the relevant statement from BT is:

"Pressing the nine button in the course of the incoming call=20
has no effect on the nature of the BT telephony and can have=20
no direct impact on the BT bill."


From: Andy Key [EMAIL REMOVED]
Subject: Re: Hoax e-mail on recorded mnessages calls?
View: Complete Thread (23 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Date: 2003-12-14 15:56:30 PST

In message [EMAIL REMOVED] Linus Surguy=20
[EMAIL REMOVED] writes

>It is certainly true that the 'hoax' warning of =A320/min is an old one=20
>that hasbeen doing the rounds at least a year now. Whilst it is possible=
=20
>to incur charges on international reverse calling, I would doubt that=20
>this is the case here. In addition, you certainly cannot incur premium=20
>rate charges on an incoming call.=20
>
>Once again, this doesnt you cannot receive an invoice for 'time' - there=
=20
>was a scam about a year ago with a third party company sending out bills=
=20
>that looked like BT bills at a high rate for using their services, which=
=20
>were on a 020 London number - but this was a standard invoicing scam, an=
d=20
>only indirectly something to do with the telephone system.
>
>However, recently in the news there has been a lot about US telemarketer=
s=20
>now starting to plunder the UK as they can do this without any tedious=20
>regulation. I suspect they may well use sequential diallers and other=20
>frowned upon techniques.
>
>
>If so, then it wouldnt surprise me if they used press '9' as a way of=20
>breaking you out to a real operator to hard sell the product - but no ot=
her
>unpleasantness, and I'm sure thats what the people who have received cal=
ls
>have had.
>
>Combine this with the old =A320/min PRS scam hoax and you have a wonderf=
ul new
>story to play on people's paranoia.


Sounds like your guess may be pretty accurate. Here's the response I got=20
from BT when I asked about the automated phonecall I received. Make of=20
it what you will.

"Dear Mr Key,

"Thank you for your e-mail regarding the recorded message that you have=20
received.

"I am sorry to hear that you have received a recorded message and the=20
story is being checked in detail by BT Wholesale Fraud Management who=20
currently believe that although there really is a telephone scam in=20
operation which is the basis of this warning, the warning does not=20
accurately describe the way the scam operates.

"BT Wholesale Fraud Management have given us the following comments on=20
the scam warning:

"BT is aware of this matter and has been investigating, it appears that=20
the warning Email may have caused more concern than the actual phone=20
calls themselves. Most of what is in the Email is actually supposition=20
- myth. Pressing the nine button in the course of the incoming call=20
has no effect on the nature of the BT telephony and can have no direct=20
impact on the BT bill.

"It is thought that there are two possible scenarios that could be=20
occurring in relation to these incoming phone calls which I have=20
confirmed do originate in USA..

"1) Having recently obtaining a recording of the actual incoming phone=20
call we know that this is in a marketing call. The call informs the=20
recipient of a number of holiday 'offers' including the prices and=20
mentions that there are limited 'free' offers if you press 9 now. We=20
believe that pressing the 9 engages a sales agent to enter the call and=20
complete the sales pitch. Clearly that happens at and through the=20
equipment of the calling organisation. (incidentally the free holiday=20
cruise is only on offer to the first 100 customers and is dependant on=20
the purchase of a one week holiday @ =A3149 per person)

"2) There is still a small possibility that some of these calls (WE=20
have only heard this one message so far) could be part of a THIRD PARTY=20
BILLED premium service. There is no proof at this stage that this is=20
the case. If it were then we feel that the pressing of the 9 button=20
might be intended to infer some form of the recipient's acceptance re=20
terms and conditions of the call. This, plus the apparent need for=20
postcode etc may enable the 3rd party biller to argue consent and=20
justify billing. In such a scenario these charges would be billed=20
totally independently of BT and would probably require the 3rd party=20
biller to ring again in order to obtain, from the recipient, their name=20
/ address details for the bill.

"We would urge customers to exercise the usual caution. Do not give out=20
any personal details unless you are certain the request for information=20
is legitimate. If you are not 100 per cent sure that the call is bona=20
fide, hang up. We are not aware of any complaints from customers who=20
have actually been billed as a result of these calls.

"Furthermore we believe calls of this nature may be in breach of=20
automatic calling equipment regulations (ACE) and would urge anyone=20
affected to report the matter to Ofcom, the communications industry=20
regulator.

"These calls originate from outside the UK and BT (and other service=20
providers) cannot prevent it happening.

"I hope this information has been useful to you."