RE: FN-FORUM: Ordnance Survey map data

date posted 16th May 2007 17:10

Anthony,

I've had many of these conversations with the OS, and in the end it =
comes
down to common sense, and in some respect this is the basis for the =
European
Database Directive. Along with many other comments about what parts of =
OS
map information can be used without a licence, I think remaining on the =
side
of caution the answer must be none, this includes information derived =
from
the OS data such as grid reference.=20

The formula for converting geospatial coordinates is common knowledge =
and
cannot be copyrighted, the same as you knowing where your house is and
telling someone how to get there.

(This next bit is unofficially and will be denied by the OS). It =
wouldn't
be inconceivable that the OS are aware of all the data infringements, =
and
accept a small amount of loss or revenue.

Whilst doing the DRM research for OS, one of the conclusions were that =
even
using DRM there may be a point reached where you accept a certain amount =
of
loss and deal exclusively with remediation and repudiation as a separate
issue. And as for the DRM certificate, by leaving it unencrypted and =
the
content unencrypted, the end user would be in no doubt that they were in
breech of copyright. But this deals with issues of end user trust and =
to
which point in the chain you employ a DRM solution.

OK waffled on a bit then. In the end even if you do a traced drawing of =
a
cycle path, and then this is used on a non-commercial basis I'm not sure =
how
much interest OS would pay to it.

There is just one other problem. Fair Use! The EU Database Directive =
does
allow for non-commercial, instructional etc. etc. use of an =
insubstantial
amount of data in a database to be used without access to the data being
restricted, as long as the person has lawful access to that data.

My only question now is, as I have free lawful access to a Google Map, =
how
much can I copy to use in a research/education/non-commercial way? AS =
my
right of access is guaranteed under the EU Fair Use policy.
=20
Peter
=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL REMOVED] [EMAIL REMOVED] On Behalf Of =
Anthony
> Cartmell
> Sent: 16 May 2007 16:05
> To: FN-FORUM / [EMAIL REMOVED]
> Subject: Re: FN-FORUM: Ordnance Survey map data
>=20
>=20
> > what you are saying is that I cannot give you a grid reference for =
my
> > house in order that you can find me.
>=20
> No, that would be OK as it's for "personal use". You would be required =
to
> state that the grid reference was derived from OS data, to be =
perfectly
> correct.
>=20
> > I doubt very much if the OS could enforce copyright infringement if =
I
> > publish a list of OS references on my website.
>=20
> Well, the man at the OS Support desk says this about publishing lists =
of
> coordinates as routes on a web site:
>=20
> "Although you will not be using an actual Ordnance Survey map, just a
> traced overlay, you will still need to apply for a Paper Map Copying
> Licence."
>=20
> > have you any case law to support this?
>=20
> I doubt the OS would bother enforcing for small copyright breaches, =
and
> internet mapping is still young... any volunteers to test this?
>=20
> In practice it would be extremely difficult to prove copyright breach =
for
> a manually traced route, unless you copy one of their deliberate =
mistakes
> (like the AA did on their town plans - and ended up paying =A3=A3=A3 =
-
> =
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/media/news/2001/march/centrica.=
h
> tml).
>=20
> > the grid reference is a fact, you can't ethically copyright facts or
> > data, only the execution or expression of that data, otherwise facts
> > become secrets and what's the point of a secret grid reference =
system.
>=20
> The grid reference itself is fine, the problem is how you found it. =
If
> you read an OS map, then you need a license to publish that grid =
reference
> on a web site.
>=20
> You can covert a Lat&Lng into a grid reference without using an OS =
map,
> but you do have to use an OS equation (or, at least, OS-defined =
projection
> parameters). I haven't dared ask the poor long-suffering support =
person
> about that...
>=20
> Ho hum...
>=20
> Anthony
> --
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>=20
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>=20
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>=20
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